While starting a new game, we (my group and I) started to talk about languages. I’ve always thought that fantasy languages were pretty useless, at least the way they are used in Roleplaying Games. Sure, the Core Rulebook describes the most common languages under the linguistic skill and offer some options under each of the races, but these are far from the only languages in the system. I mean, what about languages such as Aboleth and Boggard, are these not possibilities for PCs? Also, aren’t some languages built on the same foundation? For me, it is never easy to pick a language, as I am not sure if I will ever get to use it.
What if there was ONE language that were the first language? The original language of the universe? Lets call this Ur-speak. Then we could say that some of the oldest languages were built from that one language, meaning that they probably had something in common (languages such as draconic, celestial, giant, sylvan and the demonic tongues). These languages would become sort of our base languages, together with the first language, the Ur-speak. All other languages spoken, would then be connected to each of the base languages, sharing basic traits, meaning that if you knew one, you could probably understand and even speak some of the others as well (although hardly with the same skill as your primary language).
In this system, we operate with primary languages (the one you speak and can read and write), the secondary languages (the language or languages that is directly tied to your primary languages), lastly we have the tertiary languages (the ones that are connected to your secondary languages). This means that for instance, if you choose Sylvan, you get the following languages as your secondary languages (centaur, drow, elven and halfling). Of course, one of these could still be taken as one of your primary languages, meaning that you have a greater understanding of that particular language.
Also, in this language subsystem, you can only read and write your primary languages. Your secondary languages can be understood and even spoken, but you can only understand your tertiary languages.
This may not make perfect sense right now, but I am currently writing a short pdf that will eventually be released as a free download. Everything will hopefully be much clearer by then!
Below is an example of how this system will probably end up looking.
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SYLVAN
Scholars and linguists often refer to Sylvan as the ‘Language of Trees’, and it does indeed has its roots in the fey realms of the ancient forests. It is one of the oldest languages in the world and, together with Draconic, has the strongest ties to the primal language known as Ur-speak. Sylvan has changed little over the centuries and remain one of the most beautiful and poetic languages, often used by elven minstrels and poets to express feelings that their elven tongue can not capture.
Sylvan is the native language of the following races and creatures: dryads, gaiants, gnomes, mites, nymphs, pixies, satyrs, sprites, treants and unicorns.
Centaur: Centaurs are known as a a reclusive race that tend to keep to themselves and for this reason has developed a language that seems farther from Sylvan than any of the other sylvan tongues. The language of the centaurs is further divided into two dialects, those that roam the plains and those that hunt in the great forests.
Drow: Drows share a bloodline with elves, but has developed very differently in two different worlds, one above ground and one below. However, there is still a strong linguistic connection to the sylvan tongue of their ancestors.
Elven: Elven is derived from Sylvan and considered to be the oldest tongue of the mortal races. It is a far more complex language than Sylvan and elves from different communities tend to speak with their own dialect.
Halfling: The language of halflings shares its base structure with Sylvan, but since halflings are known to be a traveling folk, also borrows from other languages such as the human tongue. It is a very carefree and optimistic tongue which is said to have a thousand words to describe traveling and the road.
COMMON
This is the language most often used by the races that live above ground. It was developed by travelers and merchants who needed to understand the races that they met on the road and needed to trade with. For this very reason, Common is also referred to as either the Traveler’s Tongue or Tradespeak. Common is only directly connected to Undercommon, but carries within it many words and phrases of all other languages spoken above ground.
UNDERCOMMON
While Common is the language spoken on the roads above ground, Undercommon is the language commonly spoken below ground. Some, mostly outsiders, calls this language Underspeak. It is only directly connected to Common, but carries within it many words and phrases of all other language spoken below ground.
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Of course, with such a language subsystem, we need to look at every language and make an entirely new structure. As you can see from the example above, gnomes now speak Sylvan and not gnome, also, drows have their own tongue which is connected to Sylvan and only has elven as a tertiary language (drows understand elven, but can’t speak it nor read and write).
It still makes sense to take ranks in the Linguistic skill, because if anything, there will be more languages available in this system. For instance, in this system, Celestial will have a Higher Celestial language (spoken by the gods), Celestial (spoken by the gods’ avatars) and Lower Celestial (usually spoken by the clergy of the gods). We will do the same with the Giant tongue and we are even planning on dividing Draconic into several classes, such that the metallic and chromatic dragons get their own sub-language.
Any ideas/thoughts will be appreciated! Even if you just have a question, don’t hesitate to ask it.
Headless Hydra Games 
Feb 19, 2012 @ 03:28:39
As an amateur linguist, I love this idea. It brings to life in a most fantastic way what’s alluring about languages, their relationships and evolutions.
As an RPG writer, I cannot see what benefit adding this level of complexity brings to the game. Sell me on that, and you’ve got a wonderful concept brewing.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 04:16:00
It all springs from the idea that who in their right mind would choose to speak Ignan, when it will never be used!
With our subsystem, Ignan is part of the Ur-speak language (secondary language to Ignan), and will have Aquan, Terran and Auran as tertiary languages. So, now I choose that my sorcerer is going to speak Ignan, which means that he can also understand and talk Ur-speak (the original language of the universe) and understand the spoken languages of Auran, Aquan and Terran. Dwarven is actually connected to Terran, but is a little too far away for my sorcerer to understand.
We want to make it fun to choose a language, and going over core rulebook, I am actually reminded at how big of an impact language has on the game, I mean, think language-based spells and skills such as Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and even Sense Motive.
We are going to introduce a simple system that gives you a penalty -2/-4 to the above-mentioned skills when using your secondary/tertiary languages. But more on that later 🙂
But honestly, I don’t want the system to be complex, just logical, useful and inspiring.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 05:43:23
I like the idea, and will be interested to see how it’s executed. However, I would like to see Common treated either as a regional pidgin or used as a lowercase label for some other language that has regional ascendancy (i.e. “in this part of Golarion, Taldane is the most common language”), rather than as a universal tongue.
FWIW, I liked the way Hero System handed languages, grouping them by degrees of familiarity so that if you bought points in one language you automatically got a lesser number of points in related languages. I couldn’t find Hero’s official Language Familiarity Chart online, but one fan’s very similar version is here: http://fcain.tripod.com/h5skills/language_chart.png
Feb 19, 2012 @ 10:40:17
I don’t know a lot about Golarion and how languages are treated in that setting, but from the core rulebook, it is apparent that Common is the primary language of humans. I really don’t like that idea, so the way we see it is that Common is an amalgam of many languages, created by travelers and merchants over thousands of years.
We are going to give humans three primary languages, human (which is the base language, a sort of latin, a structure on which all human languages are based), Ancient (which is an old tongue, in a setting with many old kingdoms, each could be its own Ancient language) and Regional or Local. If you wanted to make Common a regional human language, I don’t think that would be any problem. I should probably think about writing a sidebar that discusses how to integrate the languages of Golarion.
I don’t know the Hero System, but it does sound a lot like how we plan on using languages in Pathfinder. What you end up with is three categories of languages.
Here’s an example based on the current material from the core rulebook: I’ve created a halfling rogue with Intelligence 13. I’ve chosen not to use the Linguistic skill for this one. Halflings get Common and Halfling from their racial traits and I’ve decided that this one is also going to speak dwarven. So this is the breakdown of his languages.
Primary: Common, Halfling, Dwarven.
Secondary: Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon.
Tertiary: Centaur, Elven, Drow, Elemental (also known as Ur-Speak).
Feb 19, 2012 @ 15:47:30
In Golarion, Common is (Taldan). Humans have a multitude of languages Azlanti, Osiriani, Kelish, Hallitm Polygot, Shoanti, Tien, Skald,Varisian, and Vudrani.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 18:58:26
And that’s definitely a step in the right direction, but Taldane should only be the Common human language for the Inner Sea region, and then perhaps only on the north side of that sea. Garund, Tian Xia, Vudra, Arcadia and Sarusan would have entirely different Common human languages.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 19:21:25
Does the Inner Sea World Guide discuss some (or all) of these languages? Also, I wonder if I am even allowed to discuss specific names.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 21:49:11
I can’t advise you on whether you can discuss specifics.
The Inner Sea World Guide does have single-line entries on languages of the Inner Sea region, and does specifically describe Taldane as “One of the oldest languages still in use in the Inner Sea region, Taldane is also the most widely
spoken in the area, and is used as a common tongue.” (Note the lower case usage of “common” and the regional limitation.) Osiriani is stated to be the most widespread language of Garund (the analogue to Africa) although this may not apply to the central and southern regions of that continent. The tribes of the Mwangi Expanse have their own dialects but Polyglot (unfortunately capitalized in the book rather than used as a generic term) is a de facto common language among those tribes.
Feb 19, 2012 @ 16:07:15
Using your example:
Halflings get Common and Halfling to start, and this one has chosen Dwarven as his bonus language. He gains his secondary languages based on his primary languages: Sylvan from Halfling, Terran and Undercommon from Dwarven. He gains his tertiary languages from his secondary languages: Centaur, Elven, and Drow from Sylvan, and Elemental from Terran. (Possibly also Drow from Undercommon?)
It’s that third step I’m not sure I like. In this example, Sylvan roughly equates to Latin. And Centaur, Elven, and Halfling, roughly equate to French, Italian, and Portugese (being languages that evolved from Latin). That would mean, by speaking French, I have tertiary comprehension of Portugese?
It makes sense to “go backward” on the evolution tree, to the parent (and maybe the parent’s parent), but not to go laterally — those languages evolved separately for a reason.
Or (and this is entirely possible) I misunderstand how you’ve plotted and derived the languages. (Or maybe the romance languages are more similar than I know, and this does make sense?)
Feb 19, 2012 @ 19:16:48
I hear what you are saying, Tom, and while there is a difference in looking backwards and lateral in our subsystem, (backwards allows you to also speak the language and lateral, only allow you to understand the language), we’ll definitely keep this point in mind.
Your example is good and sound, but I like to use an example that is much closer to me, which is danish, swedish, norwegian, three different languages and yet, if you know one, you can understand most of the others, and even speak a little of each, although norwegian is much closer to danish than swedish.
I would also like to keep in mind that this is a fantasy universe and if we want a closer relationship between the base language and those that derive from this, we can.
Feb 20, 2012 @ 04:15:16
I would not put Giant in Sylvan. I would put Giant in Dwarven category with the Runic language (Norse Mythology) Gnomes would be Runic Dwarven also if you go Norse, but Sylvan if you do the new D$D version where they are just small fey. Druidic based on Human and Sylvan. Halfling Based on Sylvan (Tree) and Human is good: if you read Tolkien and really pay attention Hobbits are the saplings of the Ents… Troll would be Giant, and so would Ogre…
Feb 20, 2012 @ 09:17:39
I agree, I wouldn’t put Giant in Sylvan either, I’d actually give it its own ‘thread’. Druidic is a difficult one, right now I am also leaning on making it a part of Sylvan, but still a secret language, outside the normal rules.
Actually, since the core rulebook mention that gnomes are closer to the fey than any of the other races, I was just going to give them Sylvan, no reason why they would have developed their own language.
At the moment, I am working from the ‘less is more’ saying. I am also thinking about dropping all the different crude tongues, like orcish, goblin, gnoll etc. and just compiling them into one ‘thread’ called Darktongue (which is basically Aklo). They probably have their own dialects, but since they are often part of the same armies, they would probably just have developed one language. I mean, they are hardly intelligent enough to control more than just the one language…
Feb 20, 2012 @ 17:21:19
In my homegame, we have a distinct approach to languages – they actually matter. Common can only be used to formulate basic Subject-verb-object-sentences and anything more complex necessitates the use of a language:
Dwarven and Giant, Terran and Hyperborean are e.g. as similar as for example Bokmål and Swedish, but still distinct from one another.
Proficiency in one does help to understand a general meaning, but not necessarily the whole of it and even lead to embarrassing misunderstandings, as I happened to learn when I embarked on the quest of learning Iceladnic after mastering the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish languages.
Polysynthetic languages, are another caliber entirely- Seeing how Icelandic, German, Norse and Old English all employ derivational synthesis and others use relational synthesis, I’m not sure whether/how the relation with an ur-language would work out in the end, were one to transfer the idea to a fantasy setting.
I’d advocate the potential for misunderstandings to be included – after all, that’s the reasons why the synthetic elements of Old English have mostly vanished – the interaction with Norse was simply easier that way…
Feb 20, 2012 @ 19:37:10
With this system, we are looking for something simple and easy to use, but also… expandable. Meaning that if you want, you should be able to expand it as much as you’d like.
I’ve noticed a language in the Bestiary… truespeech. I wonder if not this could be our Elemental/Primal/Ur-Speak?
I totally agree, languages should allow for misunderstandings and I actually think that this is exactly what you get with our system. In the old system, you either understand or you don’t understand, its that simple. With our system, we say that there are some understanding and if, for example, you want to trade with someone who speaks one of your secondary languages, you make a Diplomacy check with a penalty.